Larry Donaldson and Less Stanton are crime scene investigators. They hold a rather unique combination of roles in that they are civilians who can carry a badge, a gun, and have the power to arrest. They have served as sworn officers, for local police departments, but now they are attached to a state police post, and work crime investigations in conjunction with all kinds of law enforcement agencies. While similar in some respects, their stories will be presented separately.

Larry has been investigating crime scenes since 1978. He estimates that altogether he has worked approximately 500 homicides. Besides a 40 hour crime scene investigation school, Larry has over 780 additional hours of training and is internationally certified as a senior crime scene analyst. His training has included analyses of hair, carpet and other fibers, blood splatter investigation, fingerprinting (basic, advanced, and processing), photography, pathology and medical examination, and profiling. According to Larry, "Training is simply a part of what you have to do in order to be successful in this business. If you think you are ready to investigate a crime just because you have been to the academy, then think again. Once you start thinking that you know enough you are then in trouble. You are in this job to solve crimes, and you need every tool available to do so. This is why I recertify every two years."

Larry's path to such a career is a function of both education and experience, both being important mentors of his craft. Out of high school Larry entered college during the Vietnam War. Subsequently, he was drafted and eventually assigned to the military police. Upon his discharge he took a position, in 1972, as a local police officer. Five years later, 1977, he transferred to a second department where he worked for he next 10 years. While in that department Larry, in 1978, studied for and became a crime scene technician. Still on patrol Larry responded to all cases. As his training progressed Larry became a major crime scene technician and later held the position of supervisor. In 1987, Larry transferred to a special program for crime scene investigation with the state police. Since then Larry has been in his present assignment. Today a person in Larry's position would be required to have a bachelor's degree, though the state police requirement is still an associate's degree (Some states have already moved to required the bachelor's degree for their state police recruits. The state where Larry works will soon be requiring the bachelor's degree as well). However, Larry earned his degrees after he began his career in law enforcement. Larry now has two associate's degrees, one in criminal justice and the second, an associate of science. He has taken hours towards a bachelor's degree, but has not yet completed it. Nevertheless, as was indicated earlier, Larry has not been thin on education, given over 780 hours of crime scene training.

According to Larry, "While I don't have the four-year degree, I have certainly valued and pursued education throughout my career. If given the opportunity I would probably have stayed in school and complete a bachelor's degree before working full-time in law enforcement. But, I have had certain opportunities to see the immediate relevance of my education as I have had to apply it directly to my work." Actually Larry believes in a broad educational background as the best preparation for what he does. According to Larry, "Sociology and psychology were really very important to the development of my perspective. In such courses you begin to understand the fact of preconceived notions and prejudices. The problem is most people don't even know they have such points of view. And, they also have no idea how limiting prejudices can be. The fact is, in my line of work you have to deal with all kinds of people. You investigate and interview people from all economic classes, and people from all ethnic and minority groups. The thing you have to remember is, no matter the person, or their position in society, when they are the victim of a crime, like a homicide, that they are in fact people. The families of a homicide victim hurt just as much regardless of their skin color or class. The courses I took which forced me to think about such things ultimately broadened my mind. In my opinion this is essential. In addition, you will have to find some way to work with all kinds of people while you are in an investigation. Some of these will be people you interview, while others are part of the larger neighborhoods or communities in which your investigation is taking place. If you are broad-minded enough you can begin to see things from their point of view, and perhaps, to even think as they think about certain things. I can't tell you just how important this is."

Related to this is a trend Larry sees in investigation skills. "Society is becoming very diverse, more so than black and white, or city and town. It is now becoming more important to understand culture and languages. If you are dealing with people where their first language is not English, then it is so easy to get off track or misunderstand. You need to realize what it is like and means to be a foreigner or a recent immigrant. So I see a coming need for multilingual and culturally aware officers."

There are other ways in which such coursework is also important. "One frequent skill we use is interviewing. You have to be able to successfully communicate, with anybody. And, you need to know, if for some reason, you can't do the job. On occasion you are better off having someone else come in and conduct the interview. Among those you interview are people who are witnesses to a crime, victims of a crime, and suspects of a crime. You have to pay attention not only to what people say, but what they don't say. And how they conduct themselves. Many times it is the nonverbal cues, which we all give off, that really puts you on to critical information. You have to both listen and observe. One of the very simple things you are trying to find out is whether the subject you're interviewing is telling the truth or a lie. Over all of this, is the fact that victims, and victims' families, or just the families in the case of a homicide, are usually very emotional. Crimes, especially homicides and other crimes of violence like rape, are damaging to all related people. They will be grieving in the case of death , as well as angry and/or frightened. Some people will hide facts so they can take the law into their own hands and take revenge on whomever they believe is responsible. The issue here is that you must be always aware of the people and the circumstances so that you can make progress towards the truth."

On the other side of the classroom, Larry recommends a broad familiarity with the sciences. In his work he has frequently had to do preliminary examinations of bodies. He has to decide what is necessary to collect as evidence, and he needs to know how to go about doing that. He must be able to collect evidence without destroying it. "I have to have a basic understanding of chemistry, physics, anatomy, and math. I am always identifying drugs, taking samples, and making calculations. You need to know which evidence needs to be collected quickly because it may deteriorate. You need to understand the threat of blood-born pathogens. And, you have to have a strong stomach. Homicides can really be nasty scenes. Beyond that I have stood in on autopsies in order to make sure that specific pieces of evidence were collected. You have to know what you need, what you are talking about, and what questions need to be asked. This is why part of my training has taken place in medical schools. This attention to details will not only help you solve the case at hand, but maybe even other cases. In one instance the collection and identification of one fingerprint in a crime scene, in turn led to the solving of 40 other cases."

Finally, according to Larry, it is important to understand the value of teamwork. "You simply cannot do this job without the help of others. Your people skills are necessary for working with victims and suspects, but it is equally necessary for work within field of law enforcement. In fact, the secret of successful law enforcement is contacts. For example, I keep class rosters from my various training schools. This way I can call on all sorts of people for advice, expertise, ideas, or just a connection to someone else. Just plain, sterile information won't get it. You need perspective. On this point, another category for contacts is the local police and sheriff's offices. Plus, you have to be careful with jurisdiction. It's like turf. You have to be able to call on someone you know, or be able to make acquaintances rather quickly. If you are seen to be taking over, you'll often get shut out or you could make things worse."

Les is a contemporary of Larry's, but has come to law enforcement by another route. In fact, according to Les, "I really didn't seem destined for any specific career early on. One way of looking at it is that sometimes certain events carry you into a career, rather than you making a specific and clear decision to pursue one. I'd say that it is how it was with me to a degree." Les grew up in what he termed, a "White ghetto. Pimps, thugs, and average Joe's were my role models." In the late 60's Les was drafted, went to Vietnam, and survived it to return. Upon returning, and with no clear idea of where he was heading, Les went to work in a steel mill and part-time in a store. He really had no plans, and a career, as such, was not part of his thinking.

Among other things Les subbed occasionally at a bar, the owner of which rented an apartment to him. As Les tells the story, "By one or two in the morning there was a city curfew and there was always some difficulty getting the last guys out of the bar. In particular, there were these fellows we called Night Riders. They were actually night shift deputies, who were not afraid to knock heads. Anyway, one old Night Rider gave me a hard time about 'last call,' and we had 'words.' About a week later I was out late and my car broke down, so I had to walk home. Some of these Night Riders, pulled up and harassed me. We had some more 'words,' and I'm sure I showed a lot of attitude, but they went ahead and gave me a ride home! One was the same old Night Rider who'd given me a hard time before about closing the bar. But this time he just talked with me. While talking I told him about my job situation, and the fact that I really had no plans. Then he asked me if I wouldn't be interested in law enforcement. He said, at the very least, use the GI Bill to go to college. That really was good advice."

"So, I went to the local community college and enrolled in their night school. And the late classes were law enforcement! The courses were generally easy, and a lot of common sense." After some time Les decided to make application to several local police departments as well as the state police. He didn't make the state police class for the academy, but was hired by a local department. A lot of the work was "street" work and, according to Les, "That came easy to me. The street is where I grew up and I knew how to be in that environment." Later Les applied for a special unit in which he was doing undercover work for 14 months. "I bought drugs, guns, and other stuff on the street. We wanted to know not only who was involved, but how the various crime organizations were put together. I did a lot of coordination with the state police and the state's department of criminal investigation." After 14 months Les returned to the local police department and was back out on the "street." According to Les, "I now had a feel for what was going on. I was getting more comfortable in the role." He stayed there for the next four years.

About 1978, he became aware of a position opening for a crime scene technician with the state police. He applied, was accepted, and then attended various schools for training in areas such as firearms and latent prints. He then received an appointment to a 10 county region with the state police. According to Les, "I was extremely busy, and routinely did 40 hours or so of overtime a week. I felt I was getting better at this kind of work, but the pace was just too much." He eventually received some help and returned to school for more training. He learned how to "profile" a criminal, how to "read" a crime scene, and how to use photography. According to Les, "It became apparent that many law enforcement agencies really weren't prepared to do such investigation. And, different agencies had different agendas. What we needed was better coordination between city, county, and state agencies, along with courts, labs, and investigations." It also became apparent that investigators needed additional knowledge in areas like medicine. "The goal," according to Les, "was to be able to recreate the crime. But what was amazing, was how far off you could be if you weren't prepared to do the right kind of work. And this requires the right kind of training and experience."

How does a crime scene investigator do his/her job? According to Les, "It takes every skill you have to figure out how a crime occurred. The problem is, if you are not prepared to see something, then you will not likely see it. And, there isn't anything you can learn that won't someday prove valuable in some case. But it's much more than just observing. It's observing and thinking through what you are seeing. For example, when observing a person, what do you see? What you should be seeing are the culture, values, surroundings, and upbringing of people. They are all different, and on display, if you are ready to see them. When investigating a crime scene I try to put myself in the shoes of all involved. What did these people do? What was it that the killer, at a minimum, had to do?

As the investigation proceeds it is necessary to combine such thoughts with the appropriate tools. Sometimes you have to go out of your way to learn something. For example, Les has observed autopsies in order to learn more about how the body functions and reacts to certain circumstances and events. It is also important to pay attention to time. According to Les, "So many theories of what happened just don't hold any water because they fail the test of time. It's a simple idea, but a critical one. You must develop an ability to see the same scene from multiple perspectives. This isn't very easy for most because we are all a product of some perspective, which typically excludes other perspectives. This includes myself. That's one reason why I'm now taking an art class. What's interesting is that we all draw the same object or model. But because we see it from a different angle we see different things and our drawings differ." In this way Les has worked nearly 900 homicides in his career. This leads to one more critical ingredient, experience. In working on so many homicides over his career, Les has made it a point to learn from each one. For example, according to Les, "25% of the time in a homicide you'll talk to the killer in the initial investigation." Knowing this, and other lessons of experience, causes you to pay attention in a way not knowing leaves you ill prepared.

The kind of work Les does is not generally available within every law enforcement department. Therefore, according to Les, it is very important to carefully manage the interagency relationships. It is most often the case that some local police or sheriff's department officer is first on the scene, and they will tend to have a sense of ownership over the scene. Because of this, according to Les, "You have to be careful in how you approach them and your job. The secret to cooperation is to give everyone a role, or assignment. By doing so everyone has a responsibility and a particular involvement." Besides soothing emotions and smoothing relationships this plan, according to Les, ". . . serves to protect the crime scene." While not in every case, it has happened that critical evidence has been inadvertently destroyed by officers unfamiliar certain aspects of preserving the scene.

As can be seen, the needs and processes of investigation are diverse and potentially complicated. What then, should students now be doing to prepare? According to Les, students should by all means complete their education. Les did finish his AA degree, but has not gone on. He has however, continued to take many hours of training. "Everything in your education will be potentially valuable to you in this line of work. However, you need more than information. You should dig beneath the surface and learn the story underneath. You need to find out the hidden connections in any discipline. Dig! You also need to learn how to separate yourself from personal involvement in the crime; you need some emotional distance. Homicides are awful and if you let yourself get too involved you can't really do the job." For students in college this suggests developing a kind of detachment in research. Learn to argue a point without getting personally involved. Take a point of view which is opposite to your's and learn to argue it. You are not learning to be disingenuous, you are learning to protect yourself and your research. As for specific courses Les hesitates to be detailed. This is due to his position that all courses have potential value. But he does suggest the following. "Students should take a broad array of subjects, including courses in human behavior, law enforcement, computers, basic medicine or anatomy, and math--for the thought process."

In summary, Larry and Les demonstrate that solving crime requires a broad array of skills, perspectives and relationships. Crime scene investigation is both a science and an art. You are dealing with people often at their most emotional and irrational. And you are in settings of great tragedy and horror. Yet there is supreme satisfaction in solving a crime, a homicide, and bringing a murderer to justice. For this kind of work Larry and Les are well compensated, ranging from $65,000 - $70,000 annually, including overtime.